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Which batteries for HK 500.

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hairykarts View Drop Down
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  Quote hairykarts Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Which batteries for HK 500.
    Posted: 08/Apr/2011 at 6:49am
I use 2x 30c 2800 zippy lightmax in series. work gr8 dont get warm even  ( i dont do 3d so they will if you USE them) . They are tight under the canopy though so slightly shorter in lenth would be better, they are 115mm long , I also use 2x 20c 2200 but they dont last as long.

Edited by hairykarts - 08/Apr/2011 at 6:52am
I must remember .... when inverted .... down is up and up is down .
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  Quote s0ck020 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/Apr/2011 at 1:51am
T-rex 500 manual shows configurations for 4S 5S and 6S. Doesn't have any 3S configuration. You can find a .pdf version by googling it.
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  Quote kbarth1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/Apr/2011 at 1:11am
My Tipps 4u are:
- Training with a simulator
- 2 x https://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=9265
- for beginners mode put the pack on a lower place. Mine are on the left and right side of the Motor -
  the ESC is mounted on thr place where the power-pack is normally mounted.
- For balancing a seperate NIMH-Pack is as power for rx servos and flymentor
- mount a flymentor or helicommand etc. helping you to keep your heli in a good balance
- Buy a 2nd HK500.. for spare-parts; you will need much of them
- Excuse  my English

Good luck
Klaus
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  Quote 2Doggs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14/Feb/2011 at 4:52am
you should definitely download the Align Trex 500 pdf manual - there's a lot of very specific information in the last few pages on different pinions, battery packs and headspeeds.

My preference would be to use 2 x 450 size batteries in series to make a 6s pack, since I already have a few good 3s packs, and two Nano-Tech packs on the way if Swiss Post ever deliver them! Angry

Remember that for any given power, you will draw double the amps using 3s than using 6s, so you'll need a bigger ESC. 6s seems about optimum for the 500, and of course there is a very slight gain in overall electrical efficiency the higher the voltage you use.

Most 500 motors seem to be pitched at 6s use, and for starting out with moderate power the HK 500H 1600Kv looks perfect, with either a 12t pinion, or, my preference, a 13t or even 14t pinion when using governor mode. I really like the governor mode on the Superbrain ESC's, and like the way that the heli feels exactly the same at the end of the battery as at the beginning.

Your flight times will depend mainly on the HS. Full-on stick banging 3D flyers will want the maximum HS, and most of the battery energy will go on parasite drag in the main rotor! Not to mention everything will wear out quicker and your servos need to be stronger. I prefer to strike a balance between duration and power, and prefer smooth, quiet flying at lower HS - I reckon using governor mode and a 13t pinion on 6s with a 1600Kv motor, you'd get good results with HS 2100 to 2400 and that should be good for up to 7 minutes or so, maybe more at the lower HS.

In fact the Align manual shows approx 11A at hover on 6s at HS 2150 with a 12t pinion - which would give you over 9 minutes hovering with a 2200 pack, using 80% of the pack capacity. That might suggest 15A hovering at HS 2400 giving 7 minutes.

It's also worth looking at what batteries are available, and at what prices.  You have to make sure the batteries fit too, and that they're not too heavy - so forget any posts that go on about using much bigger batteries! With current battery technology, 6s 2200 seems to be about the sweet spot, with the single 6s packs costing and weighing a bit less than 2 x 3s packs of the same capacity. The Align manual recommends 6s 2100 - 2500. Anything outside of that might not fit under the canopy, and might result in your tail servo being half way down the tail boom! I'm not keen on that look.

Update: I think the Nano-Tech batteries are a bit lighter than the equivalent regular ones, so 6s 2650 might be a great size for the 500.


Edited by 2Doggs - 16/Feb/2011 at 1:18am
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  Quote Rotormaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/Dec/2010 at 9:08am
Originally posted by 2Doggs

As you can see from playing around with the calculator, you need a motor with a KV rating of about 1600 for 6s. The HK500 main gear has 162 teeth, so if you're shooting for a head speed of about 2500, you'd use a 14t pinion. Running off a 3S pack wouldn't give you enough head speed, and I'd be surprised if you could find a 22t pinion - but even then the HS would be too low.

"The HK500 main gear has 162 teeth" Now that is info that I can use!Thumbs Up I cannot believe that this is not even displayed on product "specifications", but now that I know this, inputing that variable into the calculator I can see that you are indeed correct. Although I believe it would be sufficient energy, a 1600 kv just would not be able to produce the required RPM at that voltage with such low gearing. 

Originally posted by 2Doggs

In fact HK do 3 heli motors for a 500 that are aimed at 3s users

Thats great!Clap I didn't even know there existed such a thing as 450/500 motors! Again more fantastic info! I am a little dubious as to using them for a 500 application as seeing on the comments everybody uses them only for 450s.

Do you know if they fit straight onto the 500 frame with no modifications? 

With their high kv, I am assuming that although they can provide the required RPM on only a 3S, they would do so with much less torque than would a conventional 500 application, which seems PERFECT for me since I will need nothing more than just enough to hover. 

One more thing. You mention that the 2900 kv unit can handle 4S, and reading through the reviews and discussions people claim that it can only be used on 4S because 3S will not provide enough RPM. I am thinking that this does not apply for a 500 application, and I will indeed be able to use a 3S since all of those comments are based on 450 applications, and thus their need for a higher head speed. 

Thanks for all this info 2Doggs! Very useful and a big help. Clap 
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  Quote Rotormaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/Dec/2010 at 8:42am
Originally posted by Sooty

There is a summary of all the collective wisdom from the HK 500 posts here in MSWord.doc:

Topic: HK-500GT Build Thread Summary
    Posted: 04 Feb 2010 at 8:47am
The attached MS Word document is an 11 page summary of the collective wisdom contained in the first 1000 posts (67 pages) of the RC Groups build thread.   Obviously the contents are biased to what I thought was important and contributors with proven knowledge and experience. uploads/25254/HK-500GT_Helicopter.doc

The general consensus is that 2 x 2200 3s 30c in series is a good option. Better to cook a cheap 3s battery than an expensive 6s. Besides these batteries can be used for lots of applications beside helos.


I am looking to see if it is possible to reliably run using a single 3S, but thanks for that link anyway.
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  Quote 2Doggs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/Dec/2010 at 9:45am
Most people graduating from a 450 would use two of their 450 packs - normally 3S1P 2200Mah, 25c or more, in series in a 500. The higher the voltage, the higher the electrical efficiency, though the increase may only be small.

As you can see from playing around with the calculator, you need a motor with a KV rating of about 1600 for 6s. The HK500 main gear has 162 teeth, so if you're shooting for a head speed of about 2500, you'd use a 14t pinion. Running off a 3S pack wouldn't give you enough head speed, and I'd be surprised if you could find a 22t pinion - but even then the HS would be too low.

Assuming the largest pinion you can get is 16t, and you insist on running 3s, and you're trying to get 2500HS, you'd have to find a motor with at least 2800KV. Compared to running 6s (i.e. either your 2 x 450 packs in series or a 6s pack) you would need an ESC with double the current rating for 3s.

In fact HK do 3 heli motors for a 500 that are aimed at 3s users

Turnigy 450/500 H2223 Brushless outrunner 2900KV
Turnigy 450/500 H2223 Brushless outrunner 3500KV
Turnigy 450/500 H2223 Brushless outrunner 4400KV

In fact the 2900KV one can be used with a 4s pack.
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  Quote Sooty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/Dec/2010 at 3:17pm
There is a summary of all the collective wisdom from the HK 500 posts here in MSWord.doc:

Topic: HK-500GT Build Thread Summary
    Posted: 04 Feb 2010 at 8:47am
The attached MS Word document is an 11 page summary of the collective wisdom contained in the first 1000 posts (67 pages) of the RC Groups build thread.   Obviously the contents are biased to what I thought was important and contributors with proven knowledge and experience. uploads/25254/HK-500GT_Helicopter.doc

The general consensus is that 2 x 2200 3s 30c in series is a good option. Better to cook a cheap 3s battery than an expensive 6s. Besides these batteries can be used for lots of applications beside helos.



Edited by Sooty - 04/Dec/2010 at 3:18pm
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  Quote Rotormaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/Dec/2010 at 2:40pm
Originally posted by wchiro

Perhaps it's because he hasn't given enough information, such as what motor he plans to use.  I could just as easily say a 1300 3S would be good.  Would I be wrong?  No.  Would I be right?  No.  Would I just be guessing.  H*ll yeah!

Most probably a 1600 kv. 

Originally posted by wchiro

A 450 is more of a challenge to fly because of the higher headspeeds.  They do move very quickly.  The larger the heli the easier it is to fly, but they do get costly to repair.  IMO the 500 is a good compromise to learn on.

Why do you think that a higher head speed would make it more difficult to fly? Does not more RPM imply more rotational inertia? And since gyroscopic inertia is the property of a rotating object that resists any force which attempts to change its axis of rotation, the more rotational inertia the body has, the more that the torque induced gyroscopic precession will resist the force that acts upon the body's axis of rotation. I don't understand what you mean by "is more of a challenge to fly because of higher head speed". If that is indeed what you are trying to say, than how is that so?

Originally posted by wchiro

It's difficult to say if the batteries that you propose to use will be sufficient, as you do not elude to the motor that you plan to use.  I could not recommend a 3S when the motor requires a 5 or 6S.

I will be using either the HK H500 or the turnigy. Both seem to have reviews with low fault rates as well as beginner friendliness. 


Edited by Rotormaster - 04/Dec/2010 at 2:41pm
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  Quote Rotormaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/Dec/2010 at 2:04pm
Originally posted by boxo53

I see lots of advice but no direct answers.
 
 
 
Both work well and give me 5-6 minutes depending on flight conditions.
Both can be mounted to get a good CG.
 
Hope this helps.

I don't think I am going to get a direct answer for this am I? 

It would be great if somebody running 3S2P would be brave enough to run their machine on the single 3S, and then report their findings. 
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